What is the Success Rate? – Guest Post by Brad Sargent

I have have always enjoyed Brad.  He has a fantastic mind and a great wit. I think you will find this post informative and very encouraging. So without further ado …

What is Your Success Rate?

© 2009 Brad Sargent

Used by Permission

It’s been about 25 years since I first contacted an Exodus ministry, and 20 years since I attended my first Exodus conference – Philadelphia 1989. Those were the years when conference attendance hadn’t gone beyond about 250 people. (I’m still in touch with some of the people I met back then, and we’re still moving forward!)

Who would’ve thought that relatively soon after my first conference, I’d find myself working as the first “publications and resource specialist” at the U.S. headquarters office for Exodus. I worked in that position from 1991 until the office moved from California to Seattle in 1996.

My main roles involved research, writing, editing, and conference organizing. On occasion, I’d answer the phone. Whether the caller who wanted help was a man or woman seeking to overcome their own same-sex issues, or a pastor or parent or spouse, there was one question I heard more than any other: “What is your success rate?”

That question popped up so often, it became a frustration. There were no formal studies available from Exodus ministries then – who had funds or time to conduct such research? And yet, callers were anxious to know: If I’m going to invest myself in a transformation process, will it pay off? It’s just part of human nature to want a guarantee, but there was (and is) none we could give. What was our success rate? I was at the point of saying, “Well … 100 percent for those who follow Jesus Christ the rest of their life.”

But I had to realize the REAL question hidden underneath the surface question. It was not ultimately about success rates, but about hope. Can I change? Can things be different? Can I live a normal life? Can I have hope?

We’re all looking for certainty, but faith is based on more than just clinging tightly to right information. I’ve come to believe that hope is far more tied in with the content of our imagination than with our mental cogitation. If we cannot imagine a future different from the present – if the extension our current situation seems inevitable – then we have a vain imagination. It is empty of goodness and of hope.

Our hope gets drained when we imagine things will always be the same as what we face right now. But a vacuum in the soul seems to be the place most prepared for Jesus Christ to dwell. Only He can reverse the void by infusing it with Himself. He is our horizon that we are marked out to move toward. He is our future. He is our hope.

What is your success rate? The answer never really was a WHAT. It always is a WHO. Jesus Christ is “success” because He was obedient to the Father’s plan. When we find our identity in Christ and not in our own strengths or weaknesses, we too can find success in living. Not perfection, but perseverance. Not absence of temptation, but freedom from feeling we have to give in. Not a guarantee by following rules, but genuine hope empowered by grace.

Perhaps the deepest success of Exodus has been in restoring a sanctified imagination to those who’ve grown devoid of hope. From that beginning point, we can engage in a trajectory of transformation toward overcoming, restoration, and wholeness. In the famous words of a fashionably grey Sy Rogers/Eleutheros t-shirt from 20 years ago: “I used to be, but I’m not any more. 1 Corinthians 6:9-11.” Change happens, so hope is possible.

I can imagine joining in at next year’s conference to celebrate 35 years of Exodus’ pioneering efforts in whole-person discipleship. It’d be great to cheer on next generations of overcomers, families, friends, and ministers as we continue our journeys of transformation! Hope to see you there …

MORE:

bookthumb

Now in 2009, we do have a true scientific study documenting “change” called Ex-gays? by Jones and Yarhouse.

Related posts (automatically generated)

About Randy Thomas
Randy is the Executive Vice President of Exodus International. You can read his professional bio here. He is also online at his Twitter and Facebook accounts. Randy also maintains a personal blog.

Comments

  1. jm says:

    so, in other words, 0%? i don’t mean that in a mean-spirited way but lets say hypothetically i believe in the lack of existence of god as much as you believe in the existence of god. if “curing” gayness requires God’s existence then from my point of view, it’s impossible. or does it just require faith, and if said faith is misplaced (again from my pov), couldn’t you just call it self-repression? just questions, no disrespect intended.

    • Randy Thomas says:

      Hi JM,

      as you can tell, I have approved your comment because I really appreciate your willingness to clearly state that you are not trying to be disrespectful.

      I am hoping others will chime in on this because I am super busy at the moment but I wanted to quickly say a few things.

      1. thank you for being respectful :)
      2. We aren’t “curing gayness.” We have never said we are here to “cure gayness.” We do talk about freedom and that freedom can exist in the midst or absence of any behavioral temptation. The goal is our faith in Christ and to live our lives congruent with that faith.
      3. *You* could call it self-repression because you have placed your faith in there being no god. No disrespect, but you can’t prove the non-existence of god just as much as I can’t prove (to you) the existence of God (we all place our faith in something, someone or some belief system. It’s how we are wired.) As for “repression” I wouldn’t call it that because what I am doing isn’t a negative thing. I would call it questioning homosexuality and being faithful to obey Him (while also loving, worshiping, enjoying Him.) I know why I was attracted and can still be tempted today. I know why I identified as gay and I know what to do about it. I choose not to identify as gay or participate in homosexual behavior and I have never felt “repressed.” In fact it opened the door for me to be open minded that there might be a lot of limiting things in my life that being “gay” brought with it. Sifting through that opened the door to pursue an understanding of the opposite sex in a different way and 17 years later, I am still single, but I could definitely see myself as a husband and potential father.

      I am content in Christ regardless of circumstance and that is what freedom means to me.

      It’s not been easy but I never felt like I wasn’t able to make my own decisions and have always believe the journey with Christ is far better than the momentary conflict of feelings I might experience for a season.

      That’s a very good question and again I hope that others will chime in.

    • Scott Davis says:

      JM, obviously an important thing to define if we're going to talk about "success rate" is what we mean by success. You've defined success as "curing gayness" but I doubt what you mean by that has much to do with what we are aiming for.

      Our primary goal for individuals is to help people who have unwanted same-sex attractions live full, abundant, faithful lives toward God. You may not see that as an important goal, but it's what Exodus is all about.

      Brad mentions in the article that he often wants to say it's 100% successful for those who continue following after God. This is based on our Christian belief that God is faithful to those who love him. He promises to be with us through whatever difficulties we face, and to redeem (save, transform, make new) our very lives.

      It reminds me of what the Apostle wrote in Romans 8:

      "You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness. And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you."

      (in other words, the power that gave life to Jesus' dead body when it was lying in the grave is the same power that gives life to us when we are dead in our spirits. God's power is sufficient to transform our lives, help us overcome our struggles, and to live holy lives)

      "Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation—but it is not to the sinful nature, to live according to it. For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live, because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship. And by him we cry, "Daddy, Father." The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children. Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory."

      (Those who follow Christ are adopted into God's family and called his own children. This frees us from fear of punishment or death and allows us to live in freedom and in love. God is not someone we dread, but we love as Father. As his children, we have an obligation to obey him. Those who refuse to obey prove they are not his children)

      …" And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified."

      (this is where the idea of the 100% success rate comes in. Those who are truly followers of Christ, redeemed children of God, will be made holy and glorified. This doesn't imply a lack of difficulty and struggle and even occasional failures, but does mean that God is working powerfully in us to bring new life)

      This is why Exodus constantly points people to Jesus as the source of the healing and change they are looking for. God is the one who does the work in their lives. We are simply those who God uses to provide loving care, speak truth, and help them along their journey.

  2. Thom Hunter says:

    Good Morning,

    Obviously this was a question I wanted answered oh . . . about thirty years ago . . . and asked it of counselors, pastors, psychologists and Exodus ministries. No one really ever had an answer, but, now having the benefit of a long history and the passage of time, I wonder if the question itself is not designed to just trick us up. Is our desire for freedom truly to be based on a success rate? Even if the success rate were 0% as the comment above suggests, I would still pursue it based on my understanding of what I believe God wants for me and what I believe is God's design for my life. And my success would be based more on how well my life eventually glorified Him. Truly I want to be temptation free . . . but more than that I want to be temptation-resistant. And I want to help others who feel the call of God away from the lifestyle.

    I can certainly find satisfaction in perseverance. I don't consider it self-repression so much as self-discovery. And for me, it does take a belief in God. My will becomes His, but it's because I choose that.

    Thom Hunter
    http://thom-signsofastruggle.blogspot.com/

  3. Tom Cole says:

    Does the alcoholic, or the gluttonous person first ask what the success rate will be before considering quitting alcohol and cutting down of food? I never even knew it was possible to change but decided to be obedient to God's will and God's word. I have been free for 22 years. Our society is so "in their heads". It is painful for the flesh to obey God's word regardless of our weaknesses. But obedience has amazing benefits; both in this life and the life to come.

  4. Jen says:

    Hey JM:

    I didn't know that a life with Christ was possible, in fact, I didn't know that I had unmet needs or anything like that. I lived my life based upon whether it was good for me or not. I had to experience things first hand. This thinking led me to many not so good behaviiors, drugs, drinking, premiscuious heterosexual sex and then lesbianism, over eating and starving, basically my life was a mess. I was lonely, isolated, and miserable.

  5. jen says:

    It was while I was living in the lifestyle that Jesus pursued me, He healed me, He changed me, and He called me out of that life into one with Him. Now my life is free of all of those things mentioned above. I am married have five children and continue to love and trust Him. He has taken me places that I would never have choosen and they have always benefit me.

  6. Jen says:

    So with all that, can I ask you?, if you are even posting the question, are you so completely satisfied being all that gay has to offer and still find yourself wanting? If you are questioning, put the question to Jesus. If He really is all that He claims to be then there is defiinately more to life and it is found in Him. Let me know what you decide. I will pray for you as you request.

    • phoenixmd says:

      To look at it another way, my personal experience with Christians is that they are superficial, judgmental, hypocritical, intellectually dishonest, ignorant, and condescending. But would it be fair of me to generalize "the Christian lifestyle" as one marked by all of these characteristics, without acknowledging that many Christians are in fact among the most kind, decent, and generous people in the world? Of course not! And if I ever made such a misleading statement, I would want someone to call me out on it. Despite my negative personal experiences with Christians, I'm able to look past it and avoid stereotyping. I advise you to do the same with regard to gay people.

      • phoenixmd says:

        Oops. This comment was supposed to appear right after the one posted at the very bottom of the page. Kind of a weird commenting system on this blog.

  7. j_m says:

    A couple thoughts for all who replied (again I'm trying to avoid being judgmental here while still referring to your personal stories and faith) :
    -I'm actually straight, Jen

    -(to Randy) Obviously, neither of us can prove the existence or non-existence of god to one another. I only meant to suggest that an atheistic interpretation of the assertions made in the article might be that you are only successful in as much as you follow God's path, and if God doesn't exist than you can pretend to be successful but can never actually achieve success (whatever "success" may be, and I apologize for the assumption that it meant "curing gayness" because clearly it doesn't). Obviously, i'm not trying to convince anyone that my worldview is correct, but only that it exists and might interpret your version of "success" this way.

    -The more interesting question (if we're going to get into it, and I must say I'm a little hesitant to do so) is whether or not what you are doing is indeed "a negative thing," not only for those you are working with but for our society as a whole. I would argue that the answer is not so cut and dry. “Questioning homosexuality” is one thing but calling it a “psychological problem” (from the “ex-gays?” book blurb) might be really hurtful to an individual and also to our greater society's tolerance of the gay community. You may not see this as a problem because perhaps you think in an ideal world an open, practicing gay community wouldn't exist. But I'm guessing your program isn't in favor of forced therapy of “out” homosexuals, which is often what our society requires of people with severe “psychological problems.” Again, the question probably comes down to world view, if God exists, and if the bible is the word of God, and if your interpretation that it truly prohibits homosexuality is correct, then perhaps what you are doing is positive. But let's say hypothetically those things aren't true. Then perhaps by telling people (and telling yourself for that matter) that they have a psychological deficiency instead of accepting them for the person they are and have always been, you are in fact doing something negative. The dead-end issue is that you believe without a doubt in the truth of those 3 “ifs,” thus my argument ends there and I accept that, but perhaps it's useful to see how someone of an atheistic perspective might view the positive and negative aspects of said therapy.

    -As far as personal “freedom” goes, that's a very malleable word right now. After all, part of the pretext of going to Iraq was, and is, that we were bringing them “freedom.” While, the term freedom can certainly be subjective I think it's important to differentiate between actual, literal freedom and the usage of “freedom” as a vague way of equivocating forced conformity. So, when you say by gaining control over your momentary temptations (I would call these sexual desires) and lifting the limitations being “gay” brought with it you gained “freedom” I would just ask what kind of freedom you mean. It sounds like you mean the freedom to love/follow Jesus Christ as a whole person no matter what, but I would suggest that in a different world, one where homosexuality was accepted by the church, and society at large, you might have done this without feeling to need to “choose” to ignore your desires. I hope this doesn't all sound ridiculously presumptuous, I'm just trying to respond to your personal testimony, and I am not about to say that your path hasn't made you happy, who am I to say that, but to say that it has given you freedom to me is problematic. Let's say, for example, a child who is being bullied about his haircut goes and cuts his hair and the bullying stops. You could say he just gained “freedom” from the bullying, but is that really freedom? You might say an obese person learning to suppress a desire for food could provide “freedom” but what if the person was actually normal weight and the world around them had convinced them that they needed to lose weight? Would hunger suppression in that case still be “freedom”? I guess the point I'm trying to make (perhaps sloppily) is that the lack of freedom created by the desires you were born with (in my opinion sexual desire is not learned or chosen) might actually be the result of an environment that limits you, as opposed to limitations you brought on yourself. If you could have homosexual desires, but at the same time be treated as an entirely normal person, who didn't have to subscribe to some sort of label like “gay”, who could freely love/follow Christ, those desires would cease to be a limitation. From my perspective, the limiting factor was the culture within which you existed, and ironically, by helping others to become equally “free” you are reinforcing this culture.

  8. j_m says:

    cont….

    -While I personally feel like there are some negative aspects to ex-gay therapy, I can't say I'm against somebody choosing to take it on. I only wish that more people felt like there was an option for them to accept their own sexual desires while also being a faithful Christian, which clearly is not an option in your minds collectively. Scott mentioned that “throughout all recorded history, God's people have consistently taught that heterosexual marriage is the only proper form of sexual expression.” But haven't Christians defined marriage in myriad ways throughout history: as a contractual pact, as transaction of property, as vow to God, etc…? (Not to break into the whole gay marriage debate but it's intrinsically tied to this topic). And haven't the limitations of sexual expression been equally malleable? For example, re-marriage isn't allowed by the bible but isn't that the very reason why the Church of England was created, and weren't several Popes known to have fathered illegitimate children during their papacies. Were those people not “real Christian” leaders? Or were they just bad ones? As far as marriage/sexuality throughout history goes, I'm not sure it serves as a useful justification for the present except to prove that expectations and interpretations are always changing.

    -And finally (sorry I got way too caught up in these questions) I wonder, jen, if you were “lonely, isolated, and miserable” because of the drugs, promiscuity, etc… or whether you got into that stuff because you were lonely, isolated, and miserable. I know plenty of people who are promiscuous, use drugs recreationally and profess to being perfectly happy. It seems a little cliché to assume that such a lifestyle can only make you miserable. But who knows.

    Thanks for your responses. Hope this isn't too forward, I was just trying to be honest. I appreciate talking to people with different opinions instead of always sticking to those I already agree with.

  9. brad sargent says:

    Wow – some challenging questions and comments based on the guest post I wrote. I thought I’d post a reply to try to tie together a few themes and riff some on what I understand as “success” for those who follow Christ.

    If I were using a bit more rustic bumper-sticker theology, then when it comes to talking about “success,” I’d suggest that what we really want when it comes to any life-dominating issue is: “Snap, Zap, the end of the Crap.” We want to hurry up so we get relief from the anguish caused by this concern. Instead, the reality is more like “Slow Mo to get to the Goal.” We move gradually from specific points of choosing toward an expanded process of changing. Here’s what I mean.

    For those who believe same-sex desires go against God’s design, then same-sex behaviors are an issue of MORALITY. Moral issues are absolutes. Either we obey or disobey. So, giving in mentally, emotionally, spiritually, and/or physically to same-sex desires is sin – it’s a manifestation of our brokenness. (And everybody has areas of brokenness where our human nature goes against God’s design in one way or another.)

    From a Christian perspective, if we willfully continue on in areas of sin, we’re fighting against God’s will to take us to MATURITY. Maturity is relative. We are more or less mature overall, and may show relatively mature choices and behaviors in some specific areas of our life, and not in others. So maturity is both an issue of breadth and depth, covering all of life and to the deepest levels.

    When we define “success,” it should be about both morality and maturity. These two are definitely related. Can anyone who lives in immorality become fully mature? For instance, say the issue under scrutiny weren’t same-sex behavior but constant lying, or stealing, or contempt – or anything in the I-used-to-be-but-I’m-not-anymore list found in 1 Corinthians 6:9-11. Would someone practicing those sins be considered mature? No. A consistently immoral person is not mature. Said in reverse, a consistently mature person is not immoral. Our points of obedience – choosing right instead of wrong on what God says are moral imperatives – lead us into and through a process of overcoming and developing righteous character.

    Persevering is painful. It costs us, because we cannot do what we want. But then, as those belonging to Christ, we gave up “our right to unrighteousness” when we came to Him. It seems to me that when we begin our journey toward freedom from an unwanted same-sex orientation, many or most points of choosing the moral route by resisting sin is an agony. Over time, we mature and the process of choosing morality becomes more consistent and, often, the agony lifts – though God gives no guarantees that we will experience less temptation, only that He will be sufficient for helping us resist. The more fully we mature, the more freedom we find to discover God’s original design for us in our core humanity, and as people of both gender and sexuality. And so, interwoven morality and maturity is “success.”

    And there you have it … and hope that is of some additional help in sorting through the definition of "success."

  10. phoenixmd says:

    Jen,

    I know your comments weren't addressed to me but I hope you won't mind if I ask you a question anyway: whoever said that drugs, drinking, promiscuous sex, loneliness, isolation, and misery are all that being gay has to offer? It has nothing to do with what you're offered and everything to do with what you choose to get out of it. Your choices were obviously irresponsible and dangerous, but that doesn't mean other gay people behave the same way. It's perfectly understandable that your notion of "the gay lifestyle" is based on what you experienced, all of which happened to be overwhelmingly negative and not conducive to long-term happiness. But please try to be a little more open-minded. Being gay doesn't mean that you have to do drugs or drink or sleep around, and it certainly doesn't mean you're destined for a life of misery.

  11. Nick says:

    All I can say is I'm part of the success rate. I sat in "The Harbor," a gay bar in Cupertino, California, 36 years ago and prayed that God would get me out of that life. And now all these years later, I'm a blessed man, with a wife of 34 years, three grown kids and four grandkids. I shudder to think of my life, had God not intervened. No doubt I'd be long dead.

  12. Nick says:

    First, I didn't change my life. I could not do that. I was powerless. But had I stayed where I was at that time of my life, either disease would have done the job or the depression inherent in what, to me, was a deadend way of living would have taken its toll.

    • Randy Thomas says:

      Hi Nick. Thank you for sharing your story and for keeping up with the conversation. Just wnated to let you know that you can hit reply underneath the comment and it will thread the comment. This helps with the flow of the conversations born within the whole thread.

      So glad you are here!

  13. ScottRDavis says:

    Phoenix, given your question, maybe we should clarify further the goal, since people have many misunderstandings of what it means to live as a Christian. We are not saying that our goal is to help people live lives congruent with their faith whatever "that faith" may be. We are talking about the Christian faith which was revealed from God to mankind in the scriptures — the same scriptures which proclaim boldly from start to finish that God designed sexuality to be expressed only between a husband and wife — the same scriptures which state that "those who love me, obey me." Throughout all recorded history, God's people have consistently taught that heterosexual marriage is the only proper form of sexual expression. The present confusion of our culture does not undo the clear teaching of scripture and of the church.

    In other words, though some might feel that engaging homosexually is congruent with their faith, homosexual identity and behavior are not and can never be compatible with Christian faith.

    So again, our goal is not to help people live congruently with their feelings, but to live faithful lives towards God. And we can only be faithful toward God when we believe and obey Him.

Trackbacks

  1. [...] What is the Success Rate? – Guest Post by Brad Sargent var fbShare = {url: 'http://blog.exodusinternational.org/2009/10/19/study-shows-ex-gay-ministry-success-rate-ltr-by-kirk-chambers/', title: 'Study Shows Ex-gay Ministry Success Rate – LTR by Kirk Chambers'} [...]

blog comments powered by Disqus