From Dr. Throckmorton (posted with permission):
STATEMENT FROM PASTOR RICK & KAY WARREN REGARDING ACTIVITIES OF MARTIN SSEMPA IN UGANDA
Martin Ssempa does not represent me, my wife Kay, Saddleback Church, nor the Global PEACE Plan strategy. In 2007, we completely severed contact with Mr. Ssempa when we learned that his views and actions were in serious conflict with our own. Our role, and the role of the PEACE Plan, whether in Uganda or any other country, is always pastoral and never political. We vigorously oppose anything that hinders the goals of the PEACE Plan: Promoting reconciliation, Equipping ethical leaders, Assisting the poor, Caring for the sick, and Educating the next generation.
I love this statement. Rick & Kay are amazing and have great pastoral hearts.
Mr. Ssempa is also one of the organizers of the conference last spring in which Exodus Board Member, Don Schmierer, took part. In my last post about this subject Don stated (in part) about the bill being introduced:
What this David Bahati is introducing does not reflect the Ugandans that I have ministered too…
So, in the whole of the generalized statement, Don doesn’t mention Mr. Ssempa but he makes it clear that public policy (including this specific type of legislation) was not a part of his involvement in the conference. From what I understand from my communications with Don, he wasn’t aware of Mr. Ssempa’s horrible public policy opinions. And from what I do know of Don, he would confront Mr. Ssempa if he did.
About Mr. Ssempa, I don’t understand how a Christian Pastor could be for criminalizing adult homosexual behavior or pro-gay ideology. Christ exemplifies respect for self-determination. His disciples followed Him, the rich young ruler and many others did not. Jesus Himself, who knew no sin, suffered the death penalty for sin. He was executed in our place so that we might live on to find freedom in His atonement and loving grace.
I wonder, in case this law passes, if Mr. Ssempa will volunteer to die on behalf of someone he seems so eager to condemn to death now?
Also, considering the fact that all of us struggle with some sort of sin, how would Mr. Ssempa feel if the Ugandan government discovered his biggest struggle and then imposed harsh jail sentences and potentially the death penalty on him? How would he feel if his loved ones, mentors, friends were put into legal jeopardy for not notifying the government of his struggles?
I call on Mr. Ssempa to renounce his support for this nightmare legislation. He should do so because it works completely against the spread of the gospel, denies the dignity of every human soul (regardless of their sexuality identity) and works against providing a redemptive answer for those seeking to steward their sexuality in congruence with their faith.
MORE:
MORE:
Exodus International Sends Letter Opposing Uganda’s Anti-Homosexuality Bill
Ugandan Government Poised to Harshly Prosecute Homosexuals
Dr. Throckmorton has started a Facebook group on the issue as well. He has done a great job of locating resources and ways to act to help stop this legislation.
About Randy Thomas
Well said, Randy.
This is a most sobering thought: “Also, considering the fact that all of us struggle with some sort of sin, how would Mr. Ssempa feel if the Ugandan government discovered his biggest struggle and then imposed harsh jail sentences and potentially the death penalty on him? How would he feel if his loved ones, mentors, friends were put into legal jeopardy for not notifying the government of his struggles?”
Thank you Debbie
. I am glad you caught that part of the post. I hope it is sobering to those in power, who claim to be Christian, in Uganda.
Hey Debbie, God have mercy on you,
No wonder u are now judging someone, he he he sorry for you.
I believe, if its God’s cause then no one should judge another, I believe he is doing the right thing. And ma prayers and many other christian prayers are with him.
so don’t judge now, let God do His will and change the nations
Well said, Randy.
This is a most sobering thought: “Also, considering the fact that all of us struggle with some sort of sin, how would Mr. Ssempa feel if the Ugandan government discovered his biggest struggle and then imposed harsh jail sentences and potentially the death penalty on him? How would he feel if his loved ones, mentors, friends were put into legal jeopardy for not notifying the government of his struggles?”
Thank you Debbie
. I am glad you caught that part of the post. I hope it is sobering to those in power, who claim to be Christian, in Uganda.
Hey Debbie, God have mercy on you,
No wonder u are now judging someone, he he he sorry for you.
I believe, if its God’s cause then no one should judge another, I believe he is doing the right thing. And ma prayers and many other christian prayers are with him.
so don’t judge now, let God do His will and change the nations
“Mr. Ssempa is also one of the organizers of the conference last spring in which Exodus Board Member, Don Schmierer, took part.”
They BOTH need to renounce this in no uncertain terms. So should Alan Chambers.
“Mr. Ssempa is also one of the organizers of the conference last spring in which Exodus Board Member, Don Schmierer, took part.”
They BOTH need to renounce this in no uncertain terms. So should Alan Chambers.
Persons who have a such big problem with the homosexuality of others, have really a big problem! This will be named “sexism”! To criminalize men who let them ::::DELETED BY MODERATOR ::: is creazy. Because every older men (from age 50) has to go to the urologist to controll ::::DELETED BY MODERATOR ::: Are we at begin or at the end of christianism? And depends the society from a …? God bless you!
Persons who have a such big problem with the homosexuality of others, have really a big problem! This will be named “sexism”! To criminalize men who let them ::::DELETED BY MODERATOR ::: is creazy. Because every older men (from age 50) has to go to the urologist to controll ::::DELETED BY MODERATOR ::: Are we at begin or at the end of christianism? And depends the society from a …? God bless you!
Ron Luce, the President and Founder of Teen Mania Ministries, is a good friend of Martin Ssempa and Ssempa has been a partner with Teen Mania for quite some time.
When Mr. Luce heard the rumors and accusations going on about Martin Ssempa, he talked to Martin and this is Ron’s summary, “I did talk with him and what has been reported about him is not true. the bill is about men with HIV raping boys…and the parliment (not martin ssempa) wants to give them death penalty (this is the same as the law they passed 13 years ago for HIV men raping undreage girls). martin and other pastors have reccommended 20 year sentence for this crime. please pass along the truth to others.” (see on a facebook page here: http://www.facebook.com/tonyseigh)
I haven’t looked into the details of this but thought I’d pass it along.
Thanks for passing on the information Meghan.
Meghan: Here is the definition of homosexuality and the penalty from the bill:
2. The offence of homosexuality.
(1) A person commits the offence of homosexuality if-
(a) he penetrates the anus or mouth of another person of the same sex with his penis or any other sexual contraption;
(b) he or she uses any object or sexual contraption to penetrate or stimulate sexual organ of a person of the same sex;
(e) he or she touches another person with the intention of committing the act of homosexuality.
(2) A person who commits an offence under this section shall be liable on conviction to imprisonment for life.
There is nothing here about force or age of the people involved. Please pass this along to Mr. Luce. Unless English is different in Uganda, the plain meaning of the words does not match what Mr. Ssempa is saying.
You can also read the rest of the bill. It is very disturbing that Martin Ssempa would mislead Mr. Luce.
Thanks for adding that information. I don’t doubt Mr. Luce at all … that’s probably exactly what he was told. As I mentioned to MB below, my guess would be that Ssempa is picking the talking points he thinks will spin his support into a positive thing in general.
Ron Luce, the President and Founder of Teen Mania Ministries, is a good friend of Martin Ssempa and Ssempa has been a partner with Teen Mania for quite some time.
When Mr. Luce heard the rumors and accusations going on about Martin Ssempa, he talked to Martin and this is Ron’s summary, “I did talk with him and what has been reported about him is not true. the bill is about men with HIV raping boys…and the parliment (not martin ssempa) wants to give them death penalty (this is the same as the law they passed 13 years ago for HIV men raping undreage girls). martin and other pastors have reccommended 20 year sentence for this crime. please pass along the truth to others.” (see on a facebook page here: http://www.facebook.com/tonyseigh)
I haven’t looked into the details of this but thought I’d pass it along.
Thanks for passing on the information Meghan.
Meghan: Here is the definition of homosexuality and the penalty from the bill:
2. The offence of homosexuality.
(1) A person commits the offence of homosexuality if-
(a) he penetrates the anus or mouth of another person of the same sex with his penis or any other sexual contraption;
(b) he or she uses any object or sexual contraption to penetrate or stimulate sexual organ of a person of the same sex;
(e) he or she touches another person with the intention of committing the act of homosexuality.
(2) A person who commits an offence under this section shall be liable on conviction to imprisonment for life.
There is nothing here about force or age of the people involved. Please pass this along to Mr. Luce. Unless English is different in Uganda, the plain meaning of the words does not match what Mr. Ssempa is saying.
You can also read the rest of the bill. It is very disturbing that Martin Ssempa would mislead Mr. Luce.
Thanks for adding that information. I don’t doubt Mr. Luce at all … that’s probably exactly what he was told. As I mentioned to MB below, my guess would be that Ssempa is picking the talking points he thinks will spin his support into a positive thing in general.
It’s not the truth. It’s passing along misinformation. This is not what the bill says. Randy knows. He has read the bill. You can too. http://wthrockmorton.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/anti-homosexuality-bill-2009.pdf
It’s not the truth. It’s passing along misinformation. This is not what the bill says. Randy knows. He has read the bill. You can too. http://wthrockmorton.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/anti-homosexuality-bill-2009.pdf
Should be noted that Exodus, including Alan, Randy and Don, have denounced this bill. It is being portrayed by its supporters as necessary to protect boys from sexual predators. This is a lie, since there are already laws against child abuse in Uganda. This Bill goes WAY beyond that and would imprison anyone who aids a gay person or does not turn in a gay person within 24 hours. No ministry to gays could function under this draconian law. Speak out and clearly oppose it, as Exodus has done. http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=198541255168&ref=mf
Hey ma dear Micheal
Am praying for to turn to God’s way.
We as Ugandans don’t entertain such evil acts, and you should know that it is so evil even in the Bible we believe in as Christians.
so please don’t give people wrong information about Uganda. Because u are not a citizen of our Country.
Get concerned with the laws of your country and not ours.
Turn to God ma dear
Should be noted that Exodus, including Alan, Randy and Don, have denounced this bill. It is being portrayed by its supporters as necessary to protect boys from sexual predators. This is a lie, since there are already laws against child abuse in Uganda. This Bill goes WAY beyond that and would imprison anyone who aids a gay person or does not turn in a gay person within 24 hours. No ministry to gays could function under this draconian law. Speak out and clearly oppose it, as Exodus has done. http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=198541255168&ref=mf
Hey ma dear Micheal
Am praying for to turn to God’s way.
We as Ugandans don’t entertain such evil acts, and you should know that it is so evil even in the Bible we believe in as Christians.
so please don’t give people wrong information about Uganda. Because u are not a citizen of our Country.
Get concerned with the laws of your country and not ours.
Turn to God ma dear
“I did talk with him and what has been reported about him is not true. the bill is about men with HIV raping boys…and the parliment (not martin ssempa) wants to give them death penalty (this is the same as the law they passed 13 years ago for HIV men raping undreage girls). martin and other pastors have reccommended 20 year sentence for this crime. please pass along the truth to others.”
I am surprised — and not a little bit troubled — that Randy would respond to this with, “Thanks for passing on the information Meghan.” It’s NOT “truth”. It’s passing along MIS-INFORMATION — and I am kinda shocked that Randy did not point that out. If that’s all the Bill did (punish HIV+ men who raped boys), why would Exodus, Pastor Rick Warren, many American Christian leaders, the US State Department, the Vatican, Sweden, France and thousands of people from around the globe be opposing it so vigorously? Randy, please set Meghan straight (pardon the pun). Are you really going to let her erroneous comment stand? She is seriously mis-informed. Anyone who has read the proposed law knows that.
Michael – chill out. You don’t have to be “troubled.” I don’t have to correct, answer or guide every comment on here. Plus, I am glad she contributed … it led to Warren’s explanation and your concern.
It would seem Mr. Ssempa is spinning and not telling the whole truth to concerned friends over in the US.
“I did talk with him and what has been reported about him is not true. the bill is about men with HIV raping boys…and the parliment (not martin ssempa) wants to give them death penalty (this is the same as the law they passed 13 years ago for HIV men raping undreage girls). martin and other pastors have reccommended 20 year sentence for this crime. please pass along the truth to others.”
I am surprised — and not a little bit troubled — that Randy would respond to this with, “Thanks for passing on the information Meghan.” It’s NOT “truth”. It’s passing along MIS-INFORMATION — and I am kinda shocked that Randy did not point that out. If that’s all the Bill did (punish HIV+ men who raped boys), why would Exodus, Pastor Rick Warren, many American Christian leaders, the US State Department, the Vatican, Sweden, France and thousands of people from around the globe be opposing it so vigorously? Randy, please set Meghan straight (pardon the pun). Are you really going to let her erroneous comment stand? She is seriously mis-informed. Anyone who has read the proposed law knows that.
Michael – chill out. You don’t have to be “troubled.” I don’t have to correct, answer or guide every comment on here. Plus, I am glad she contributed … it led to Warren’s explanation and your concern.
It would seem Mr. Ssempa is spinning and not telling the whole truth to concerned friends over in the US.
Thanks, Warren, for clarifying what the Bill actually says. And thanks, Randy. I agree with you! Ssempa is “spinning” and clearly “not telling the whole truth“.
Thanks, Warren, for clarifying what the Bill actually says. And thanks, Randy. I agree with you! Ssempa is “spinning” and clearly “not telling the whole truth“.
Randy, no need to apologize. On the contrary, I should be the one to apologize. I also have a bit of insomnia and my nerves are rather frazzled because, as you know, real lives are at stake here.
“Thanks for posting, I don’t think that’s accurate, but I’ll look into it” might have been a better response. I admit, I’m a bit testy about this since there is a lot of mis-information about this Bill. Mr. Ssempa is cleary not being honest with the public. Many of us spend hours each day trying to convey accurate information about the Bill so that people can intelligently oppose it — for what it really says and does. I am glad Warren cleared it up. Hope we can both get some sleep now. Peace.
well ::: laugh ::: I saw where you tried to delete your comment so I approved it and then my comment didn’t make sense anymore so I deleted it and then you post this … can we suffice it to say we got it worked out
?
Yeah. Warren covered it. I really don’t want to stir up trouble, just trying to get the right info out. I agree with you: “It would seem Mr. Ssempa is spinning and not telling the whole truth…” That says it well. Hope you and I both can get some rest now.
Randy, no need to apologize. On the contrary, I should be the one to apologize. I also have a bit of insomnia and my nerves are rather frazzled because, as you know, real lives are at stake here.
“Thanks for posting, I don’t think that’s accurate, but I’ll look into it” might have been a better response. I admit, I’m a bit testy about this since there is a lot of mis-information about this Bill. Mr. Ssempa is cleary not being honest with the public. Many of us spend hours each day trying to convey accurate information about the Bill so that people can intelligently oppose it — for what it really says and does. I am glad Warren cleared it up. Hope we can both get some sleep now. Peace.
well ::: laugh ::: I saw where you tried to delete your comment so I approved it and then my comment didn’t make sense anymore so I deleted it and then you post this … can we suffice it to say we got it worked out
?
Yeah. Warren covered it. I really don’t want to stir up trouble, just trying to get the right info out. I agree with you: “It would seem Mr. Ssempa is spinning and not telling the whole truth…” That says it well. Hope you and I both can get some rest now.