Guest Post by McKrae Game of Truth Ministry:
Pastor Taken Off YouTube For Message Against Homosexuality
What will hate crimes mean to the church?
By McKrae Game
Dr. David Manning recently had a video of a sermon he preached on homosexuality pulled off of YouTube. According to Manning*, YouTube cited the recently signed Hate Crimes legislation as their reason for pulling the sermon; they had always allowed his previous sermons. I did not see the pastor’s original sermon; however his video explaining his outrage at the situation was very strongly worded and full of emotion.
YouTube posts some of the vilest things out there, including pornography. This pastor’s sermon was over the top on many levels, but that is not the point. YouTube has the right to choose who they publish, so this post is not aimed at YouTube. This serves as an example, that if a small group of individuals, such as gay activists, decide that they do not like what is said they will turn to such legislation as Hate Crimes to silence alternative viewpoints. This is why many fighting against this legislation called it “Thought Crimes” legislation.
As a former homosexual, those of us on a “Christian post-gay journey” are very sensitive to “hate speech”, and root it out and confront it wherever it raises its ugly head. Unfortunately, the Pastor’s address was way off on a number of issues.* Pastor Manning actually called for the media to be shut down, which would be a textbook case of censorship since they are protected by the Constitution under “Freedom of the Press.”
But the most important thing (for this post) that Pastor was mistaken on is that God has a redemptive and loving heart toward the homosexual. That God sacrificed Himself for all of us, including those who have same sex attraction.
Two years ago when the Hate Crimes legislation first came up, I took the time and resources to read the bill and get involved. I saw the implications of such legislation being used against the church and altering speech. Scripture says in 2 Timothy 4:3 “For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.” NIV
In Obama’s signing ceremony of the Hate Crime’s legislation he said,
“Through this law we will strengthen the protections against crimes based on color of your skin, the faith in your heart, or the place of your birth. We will finally add federal protections against crimes based on gender, disability, gender identity, or sexual orientation. And prosecutors will have new tools to work with states in order to prosecute to the fullest those who would perpetrate such crimes. Because no one in America should be afraid to walk down the street holding the hands of the person they love. No one in America should be forced to look over their shoulder because of who they are because they live with a disability.”
The statement that Hate Crimes legislation was passed supposedly to protect not just homosexuals but people of faith is extremely questionable. Especially when the morality of both groups collide it would seem that the current Washington political correctness would favor gay “equality” at the expense of Religious liberty. YouTube shows us one way of how this is already manifesting—through public policy justified private censorship.
Do we know how far this will go? All we can do now is sit back and see what happens.
Meanwhile, we will be continuing to share the unpopular message that sexual behavior outside of marriage is “sin.” Yet, through Jesus’ sacrifice on the Cross there is the payment for sin. Not only that, His resurrection assures us of God’s love and grace. That love and grace will empower repentance toward something much more whole and satisfying.
How much longer will we be able to share the above paragraph without being silenced, fined, punished or even imprisoned? We don’t know. What we do have is today.
I am thankful that the truth was not shrouded while I was living as a gay man, as it is now—that’s why I named my ministry Truth Ministry. The Scriptures tell us, “…know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” The truth, unvarnished, but shared in love, will set us free. My story is that of a life set free by truth. There is freedom from homosexuality. It is not a popular message and one day may be illegal, but they will have to lock me up to shut me up.
My prayer is that we will not shy away from the truth. I pray that we will learn to share the truth as Jesus did. Jesus shared the truth in love; He had an uncanny way of drawing men and women to Him. Regardless of how strong God’s teaching is, it should be presented in such a way that it draws us to God rather than pushing us away. This is the correct use of teaching sound doctrine, but it won’t be tolerated forever. Perhaps if the church had learned this lesson long ago, we might not be here today.
Speak the truth, no matter how unpopular; speak the truth, no matter the consequences. Speak the truth.
* I (Randy) starred Pastor Manning’s link to his video and the “… number of issues” sentence to make this point. I don’t agree with almost everything Pastor Manning said in the linked video. His theology on homosexuality and slavery is shocking, legalistic, ignoring the whole of scripture and the Grace afforded through Jesus’ sacrifice. I don’t know, haven’t talked to or understand him so I will leave it at that.
Even so, he lives in a country where he can say those things as a free exercise of speech, conscience and religious liberty. Freedom for all means freedom for some to say offensive things. No one has a right to not be offended.
Thank you McKrae for writing this post.
About Randy Thomas
no matter what your perspective is on the subject youtube is a private company. From the perspective of a free-market libertarian and someone who defends free speech, I see nothing wrong with this. If youtube wishes to remove content from their site it is their right. It is their property. I would not condone an action of government that would infringe on their property rights. This pastor can speak of whatever he wants. Youtube can also do as they wish with the website they own.
I agree with Randy that “No one has a right to not be offended.” Jesus said that offenses would come. And it is the bait of Satan. If we believe life should be free of offense we may need a reality check. We do best by learning how to deal Biblically with offense-forgive and bless the offender. This way we are like our Father in Heaven.
I agree with Randy that “No one has a right to not be offended.” Jesus said that offenses would come. And it is the bait of Satan. If we believe life should be free of offense we may need a reality check. We do best by learning how to deal Biblically with offense-forgive and bless the offender. This way we are like our Father in Heaven.
Jeanie …you sound like a wonderful individual..but where do you or will you ever take a stand for your christianity? The bible says we are spritually at war . Homosexuals are now busy taking your rights away in your own church! If you are married …does your husband commit adultry..? The Pastor would probably tell him he would have to choose, drop the adultry or leave the church. So when that homo (which is a perversion) comes to your church with his lover and the pastor now has to allow it becasue its a hate crime.! What are you going to do Jeanie…the war has just entered your church …and when the Lord says put this out from amongst you …are you going to say…. oh that just would not be nice.. ! Then leave your husband commiting adultry and leave your teens to fornicate as well.
yeah, agreed, YouTube has every right…but I bet that if the tables were turned and a company denied a gay person the right to their product that company would be facing a lawsuit. it has happened.
yeah, agreed, YouTube has every right…but I bet that if the tables were turned and a company denied a gay person the right to their product that company would be facing a lawsuit. it has happened.
Grace your absolutely right …I totally agree with you …this is all one sided. You can say anything you want about christianity or mock God as long as its not the muslim god…and never say a word about homo perversion…oh it might be offensive.
I read the other day that for some art or what ever someone was urinating on a depiction of diety…where was the rucus over that ….as usual none , no one seems to care as long as their cell phones and tv works…no problems.
Garry, if you don’t tone it down I am about to pull a YouTube-like delete action to reign in your “perversion” of unrighteous anger. We are not “homo”s … we are people whom God loves as much as He loves you.
If I do delete your future comments, unlike YouTube, I won’t blame it on hate crimes legislation. I’ll just do it because this isn’t a place for you to attack anyone.
Having been in the gay community for over 20 years I have observed anger in perhaps every gay/lesbian individual I have met. I did not perceive my own anger until about five years of coming out of that lifestyle and environment. Anger goes deep because the hurt is deep, to the very foundation of the soul. However, the Lord is perfect in His healing process.
garry, do I detect a bit of son of thunder in you? (“When His disciples James and John saw this, they said, ‘Lord, do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them?’ But He turned and rebuked them, [and said, ‘You do not know what kind of spirit you are of; for the Son of Man did not come to destroy men’s lives, but to save them.’ And they went on to another village. ” Lk 5: 54-56 NASB). We will not win converts with this attitude. Jesus fought with the opposite spirit. Please read Romans 12.
I have no rights in this world, I have died to them. The rights I have were given to me by my Lord God (Jn 1:12). I have the right to be God’s child and to go into all the world and preach the gospel, and make disciples of all peoples (Mt 28:19-20), speaking the truth in love (Eph 4:15).
Jeanie, if you click “reply” underneath Garry’s comment it will help with the conversation flow.
garry, do I detect a bit of son of thunder in you? (“When His disciples James and John saw this, they said, ‘Lord, do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them?’ But He turned and rebuked them, [and said, ‘You do not know what kind of spirit you are of; for the Son of Man did not come to destroy men’s lives, but to save them.’ And they went on to another village. ” Lk 5: 54-56 NASB). We will not win converts with this attitude. Jesus fought with the opposite spirit. Please read Romans 12.
I have no rights in this world, I have died to them. The rights I have were given to me by my Lord God (Jn 1:12). I have the right to be God’s child and to go into all the world and preach the gospel, and make disciples of all peoples (Mt 28:19-20), speaking the truth in love (Eph 4:15).
Jeanie, if you click “reply” underneath Garry’s comment it will help with the conversation flow.
Jeanie…thanks for your message and your gentle hand… Yes you detect right…but I am an open spirit , willing to listen and take correction under the guidance of biblical truth, not as I see it but as it was intended by the spirit of god. And the fact that I am inundated by people being threatened at universities, newspaper people who write and teachers , pastors threatened by the homo sexual community… (sorry Randy) |The automatic hate of christians because of a community, or state vote on marriage.. I have gotten a bit worked up., plus..never getting any feed back on some of my comments.. I just thought the local reading community was dead. Anyway Jeanie I kind of figure that personally I can choose to love ..and I do love my gay neice , and feel I understand how she happened to become that way..
When is it time to draw the line when your institutions come under fire by a community bent on gaining special status with more rights than you and I. When is it time for Israel to defend herself…, before they take jerusalem away from them or how many rockets do they absorb?
We know who wins in the end …and yes love is the greatest of all …but I ask ?
Christians are meant to pray for their leaders, not criticize, and are they not also supposed to vote and to get involved so that abortionists and others who can rule church attendance illegal not be elected to power. Thanks
Thank you very much for reigning it in Garry. I am glad you came back and explained yourself a little more.
You said that you weren’t getting feedback on your comments and thought the community was “dead.” Was that here?
I have some ideas of why people might not respond to you but I don’t want you to think I am ‘attacking’ you. If you are interested in that feedback I can either post it here or send it to you privately. Which ever you would prefer (if you want that feedback) just let me know.
Hello Randy….I have been busy lately have not been here for a bit… No it was not here , about the feedback. It was just generally anywhere I posted comments. I appreciated Jeanies calm response to my blurb which I then understood a couple things about her. Anyway Randy if you want to give me feedback on what you stated here thats fine… I can take it.
I have just finished trying to comment on the kennedy issue just seen on the news. Thanks I will be back occasionally here to see whats going on.
I too am torn about the politics. I struggle to find balance. I’m sure it’s a process like every other part of my growth.
Thanks for your feedback. I appreciate your openess.
Garry, if you don’t tone it down I am about to pull a YouTube-like delete action to reign in your “perversion” of unrighteous anger. We are not “homo”s … we are people whom God loves as much as He loves you.
If I do delete your future comments, unlike YouTube, I won’t blame it on hate crimes legislation. I’ll just do it because this isn’t a place for you to attack anyone.
Having been in the gay community for over 20 years I have observed anger in perhaps every gay/lesbian individual I have met. I did not perceive my own anger until about five years of coming out of that lifestyle and environment. Anger goes deep because the hurt is deep, to the very foundation of the soul. However, the Lord is perfect in His healing process.
Thanks. Gottcha.
Thanks. Gottcha.
And he still does. He can slap that video up on his own blog anytime he wants (or Godtube, et al). The Phelps gang has no problem doing so and never will. But perhaps Manning’s real purpose is served better by not posting it?
The real question here, and one I think should have been determined before the post, is whether Youtube actually used the hate crimes law as a reason. I’ve not been able to find any verifiable evidence that they did in this or any other instance (every reference seems to point to this particular case). It seems unlikely they would have, since a) Manning’s rant is not addressed by the law, and b) Youtube has been removing excessively hateful or threatening videos for years as they are against their TOS.
Should I expect an absolute right of free speech on this blog?
Perhaps you missed this part of the post, right there at the beginning. McKrae writes:
I am surprised you missed that.
YouTube, just like this blog, can publish content at will. I don’t expect YouTube to accommodate everything. That said, it is very interesting that they will allow some of the most disgusting acts ever recorded on video but can’t seem to handle a hateful preacher.
The Exodus Blog is privately owned for staff bloggers which isn’t different from YouTube as far as being privately owned. Even so, we are very different in that we don’t provide a free service to the public to publish original main blog content.
At first glance I can see why you would think they are similar but if you think about it a little further it isn’t the same situation on a lot of levels. Even so, as is so obvious in the post itself, we didn’t go after YouTube’s right to publish whatever they want. We questioned their unfair treatment and according to Manning they were using the Hate Crimes legislation as an excuse.
Pastor Manning is incredibly wrong on theological issues, seems to be mean spirited and incredibly hyperbolic … yet, I don’t think he would lie about something like that. In fact, part of what made him so angry is because he really liked the service enough to brag about them having a good working relationship and his videos having 21 million views there. Are you implying that he is lying?
For a very large majority of the post, we question what that legislation will do to inhibit future religious liberty and our Christian testimonies of overcoming homosexuality. We question what this legislation might do to encourage private companies to discriminate against biblical viewpoints regarding sexuality.
Even so, we left the question open (emphasis mine.)
About our blog and your ability to comment here, our Comment Policy states (among other things)
We are pretty clear. Also, as you know from years of not having but a very small fraction of your comments allowed here or on my other blogs, we are consistent. YouTube … not so much in this case.
If YouTube didn’t say that to Pastor Manning and states so publicly or if Pastor Manning corrects himself … I’d be glad to do a follow up post documenting that for this blog. Let me know.
And he still does. He can slap that video up on his own blog anytime he wants (or Godtube, et al). The Phelps gang has no problem doing so and never will. But perhaps Manning’s real purpose is served better by not posting it?
The real question here, and one I think should have been determined before the post, is whether Youtube actually used the hate crimes law as a reason. I’ve not been able to find any verifiable evidence that they did in this or any other instance (every reference seems to point to this particular case). It seems unlikely they would have, since a) Manning’s rant is not addressed by the law, and b) Youtube has been removing excessively hateful or threatening videos for years as they are against their TOS.
Should I expect an absolute right of free speech on this blog?
Perhaps you missed this part of the post, right there at the beginning. McKrae writes:
I am surprised you missed that.
YouTube, just like this blog, can publish content at will. I don’t expect YouTube to accommodate everything. That said, it is very interesting that they will allow some of the most disgusting acts ever recorded on video but can’t seem to handle a hateful preacher.
The Exodus Blog is privately owned for staff bloggers which isn’t different from YouTube as far as being privately owned. Even so, we are very different in that we don’t provide a free service to the public to publish original main blog content.
At first glance I can see why you would think they are similar but if you think about it a little further it isn’t the same situation on a lot of levels. Even so, as is so obvious in the post itself, we didn’t go after YouTube’s right to publish whatever they want. We questioned their unfair treatment and according to Manning they were using the Hate Crimes legislation as an excuse.
Pastor Manning is incredibly wrong on theological issues, seems to be mean spirited and incredibly hyperbolic … yet, I don’t think he would lie about something like that. In fact, part of what made him so angry is because he really liked the service enough to brag about them having a good working relationship and his videos having 21 million views there. Are you implying that he is lying?
For a very large majority of the post, we question what that legislation will do to inhibit future religious liberty and our Christian testimonies of overcoming homosexuality. We question what this legislation might do to encourage private companies to discriminate against biblical viewpoints regarding sexuality.
Even so, we left the question open (emphasis mine.)
About our blog and your ability to comment here, our Comment Policy states (among other things)
We are pretty clear. Also, as you know from years of not having but a very small fraction of your comments allowed here or on my other blogs, we are consistent. YouTube … not so much in this case.
If YouTube didn’t say that to Pastor Manning and states so publicly or if Pastor Manning corrects himself … I’d be glad to do a follow up post documenting that for this blog. Let me know.
Thank you very much for reigning it in Garry. I am glad you came back and explained yourself a little more.
You said that you weren’t getting feedback on your comments and thought the community was “dead.” Was that here?
I have some ideas of why people might not respond to you but I don’t want you to think I am ‘attacking’ you. If you are interested in that feedback I can either post it here or send it to you privately. Which ever you would prefer (if you want that feedback) just let me know.
I too am torn about the politics. I struggle to find balance. I’m sure it’s a process like every other part of my growth.
Thanks for your feedback. I appreciate your openess.
What on earth did the pastor say that was so terrible…. my word…. What a insecure bunch of wimps. The stuff I have seen and heard about Palin in the news that are untrue and used for just shredding her fas a person has been way over the top but there are not too many protesting any of that …. I really can see where the control is headed in media and government…it seems to be ver well to the left.