Originally posted on Presbyweb‘s (also ChurchandWorld.com) Viewpoint on February 17, 2010:
Dispelling the myths about OneByOne and Exodus International
By Kristin J. Tremba
In January of this year, Presbyterian USA pastor, Rev. Ray Bagnuolo, wrote an article called “Ex-Gay. Ex-Loving”. In his article, he made some inaccurate statements about the ministry of OneByOne and other “ex-gay” misnitries, which stand to be corrected.
First, OneByOne has merged with Exodus International, the nation’s largest Christian referral ministry for those who struggle with unwanted same-sex attraction. This is not a “huge megalithic collaboration” as Bagnuolo describes. Our ministries are non-profits, dependent upon donations from Christian individuals and churches. We are not “huge” or “well-funded” at all. Over the past five years, we have attended Love Won Out Conferences, conferences sponsored by Focus on the Family. These one-day conferences are primarily to help parents love their child and understand why he or she struggles with same-sex attraction. Love, in the truest sense of the word, is promoted at these conferences: love that says I love you too much to condone sinful behavior.
Jesus loved the sinner, but never loved the sin. Rev. Bagnuolo writes: “Somewhere along the way you heard these words: “We love you but hate your sin.” Nothing directed toward people who identify as LGBT could be more disingenuous, more filled with hubris than combining love for another with hatred of some part of their being.”
Our ministries do not hate a part of a gay-identified person’s being; we hate the sinful behavior that can destroy the person’s true being and separate him or her from God. According to Scripture (Old and New Testaments), homosexuality is a sin – it falls short of God’s purpose and will for our lives. God hates all sin so much that right after Adam and Eve ate the apple he pronounced that the wages of sin was death. However, even though God hates sin, he loves the sinner more. God loves us so much, he sent his son, Jesus, to pay the ultimate price for sin (death) so that we might be spared separation from God.
What I have just written is the basic gospel message, and this is what our “ex-gay” ministry teaches. We also fully understand (from our own experience and other’s experience) that people do not choose to have same-sex attraction – that same-sex attraction, in the vast majority of cases, is an involuntary byproduct of a legitimate same-sex emotional need that has been left unmet (for whatever reason) and therefore has been sexualized. Healing comes when we recognize what has contributed to these unmet emotions and needs and when we find legitimate healthy relationships with those of the same-sex and with God, who is our perfect parent and Heavenly Father. [NARTH is an excellent professional, scientific, and therapeutic organization (again, not "megalithic" at all) that provides much research and many articles helping the lay person to understand some of the root contributing factors of same-sex attraction.]
The “success rate” for ministries such as ours is not 1-2%, as Rev. Bagnuolo claims; rather it is 53%, according to the most recent study (2007/2009) by psychologists Stanton L. Jones of Wheaton College and Mark A. Yarhouse of Regent University. “The men followed 61 subjects over a span of six to seven years, recording their failures and successes in their attempt to leave homosexuality. Experts in the field call it the first attempt to follow subjects who are undergoing Christian counseling over a series of years. Such a time-consuming study is called ‘longitudinal’” writes Michael Foust of the Baptist Press (2009). The study can be read in Ex-Gays: A Longitudinal Study of Religiously Mediated Change in Sexual Orientation.
There are also numerous secular studies which show a success rate among strongly motivated clients, despite what the APA currently reports. In fact, “Anyone who says there is no hope [for change] is either ignorant or a liar. Every secular study of change has shown some success rate, and persons who testify to substantial healings by God are legion” writes Stanton Jones, Chair of Psychology Wheaton College, quoted in “The Loving Opposition” Christianity Today 19 July 1993.
Finally, Rev. Bagnuolo states that ministries such as ours merely encourage people to suppress their God-given same-sex feelings to maintain the status-quo. He also claims that we want to “keep the church free of LGBT folks by whatever means.” As one who has found healing from unwanted same-sex attraction, I have found that my feelings have not been suppressed at all, but transformed. I am not an exception, either. This is true for thousands of people. Did it require an element of denial or “suppression”? Yes. Jesus said that we “must deny ourselves and take up our cross and follow him.” Jesus also taught that the more we turn from sin, the more it no longer masters us. This is very true. I am married now to a loving man, and I do not have to manufacture intimacy and sexual desire for him – they are there as a gift from God and as a result of obedience and hope that God could do “immeasurably more than I could ask or imagine.”
Do we want to bar people who struggle with same-sex attraction or who are gay-identified from our churches? The answer is emphatically, “no”. In fact, my job as the director of OneByOne in the Exodus Church Equipping Division is to equip and educate churches to be safe and loving places for gay people to come and hear the good news of the gospel. However, this good news includes the message that we are to turn from homosexual bahavior and ask God for healing from wounds which contributed to our same-sex attraction. The same holds true for anyone who is expressing their sexuality outside God’s design, which is reserved between one husband and one wife in marriage. No one who engages in unrepentant sexual sin (heterosexual or homosexual) should be allowed into places of leadership and ordination in the church. Nor should we condone same-sex marriage as a viable alternative to heterosexual marriage. Marriage between two men or two women is not marriage as God and the Scripture defines it.
Does my believing this make me “homophobic” as Rev. Bagnuolo says it does? No. A homophobic person is one who has an aversion to and or hatred of a group of people. I do not hate gay people. Do I hate homosexual behavior? Yes. Do I hate emotionally dependent relationships which lead to and define much of lesbianism? Yes. Do I hate sexual, physical, and verbal abuse, which many gay men and women have experienced in their own lives and which has often contributed to their same-sex attraction? Yes. Do I hate how many people who struggle with same-sex attraction had inadequate emotional connection with their fathers and mothers? Yes. Do I hate how pornography (gay and straight) warps our sexual appetites and turns us away from God? Yes. But do I hate those who identify themselves as gay and who struggle with these things? Absolutely not. I was one of them. I know what they feel. I know what they want deep in their hearts, and I know only trust in and obedience to Jesus Christ can fill this need.
Rev. Bagnuolo writes, “You know, when Jesus set his face to Jerusalem, I am one of those who believe that he didn’t know exactly what was going to happen.” Strange that an ordained minister in our denomination should believe this when Jesus taught his disciples explicitly what would happen to him:
“He then began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, chief priests and teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and after three days rise again. He spoke plainly about this, and Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him. But when Jesus turned and looked at his disciples, he rebuked Peter. “Get behind me, Satan!” he said. “You do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men.” Then he called the crowd to him along with his disciples and said: “If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me and for the gospel will save it” (Mark 8:31-35).
The Word of God, the teaching of Jesus, and the Holy Spirit makes it clear to us that homosexuality is not God’s will, that Jesus loves those who have same-sex attraction, that it is his will for us to turn from homosexuality to his perfect will for our sexuality, and that Jesus by his death and resurrection (of which he was fully aware), has made this possible for us as we put our complete trust in Him.
About Kristin Tremba
Although I do not doubt your sincerity, and I know you really do love GLBT people, and have enjoyed sending you messages and talking to you on Facebook, I also have felt like I wasn’t loved or appreciated by the ex-gay establishment (Exodus, NARTH, etc.) For example, this article refers a lot to how the causes of homosexuality are totally known, and how they are related to unmet same-sex needs. However, many GLBT individuals, including myself (even though I am a Christian and celibate, and some could consider me “ex-gay” in that way), have said many times that our experiences do not fit that model. However, Exodus, OneByOne, and NARTH keep promoting that model and neglecting the stories of those who do not fit it. It’s certainly not hatred, but at the same time is it love to be ignored? Where is the love for those who are still single and haven’t experienced an iota of orientation change? Exodus so often focuses only on the stories of those who are married or whose desires have been transformed. Alan Chambers has even said that a celibate person who calls himself “gay” is living in sin just as an actively gay person, which doesn’t have Biblical support. That’s not particularly loving.
So, while I totally believe that Exodus really does love GLBT people, I can also see where people – including myself – don’t see the love. If one says, “Hey, I honestly don’t fit the causes that are promoted about homosexuality,” and yet, his story is ignored, then that person isn’t going to feel loved. If someone says, “I guess I still have a homosexual orientation, but I’m happy being celibate,” but married folks are viewed as superior, then they will not feel loved. Love means inclusion, and I know many people who, despite their commitment to the Gospel, have felt excluded by Exodus, NARTH, and other ex-gay organizations.
Although I do not doubt your sincerity, and I know you really do love GLBT people, and have enjoyed sending you messages and talking to you on Facebook, I also have felt like I wasn’t loved or appreciated by the ex-gay establishment (Exodus, NARTH, etc.) For example, this article refers a lot to how the causes of homosexuality are totally known, and how they are related to unmet same-sex needs. However, many GLBT individuals, including myself (even though I am a Christian and celibate, and some could consider me “ex-gay” in that way), have said many times that our experiences do not fit that model. However, Exodus, OneByOne, and NARTH keep promoting that model and neglecting the stories of those who do not fit it. It’s certainly not hatred, but at the same time is it love to be ignored? Where is the love for those who are still single and haven’t experienced an iota of orientation change? Exodus so often focuses only on the stories of those who are married or whose desires have been transformed. Alan Chambers has even said that a celibate person who calls himself “gay” is living in sin just as an actively gay person, which doesn’t have Biblical support. That’s not particularly loving.
So, while I totally believe that Exodus really does love GLBT people, I can also see where people – including myself – don’t see the love. If one says, “Hey, I honestly don’t fit the causes that are promoted about homosexuality,” and yet, his story is ignored, then that person isn’t going to feel loved. If someone says, “I guess I still have a homosexual orientation, but I’m happy being celibate,” but married folks are viewed as superior, then they will not feel loved. Love means inclusion, and I know many people who, despite their commitment to the Gospel, have felt excluded by Exodus, NARTH, and other ex-gay organizations.
Dear College Jay,
Thanks for your honesty. You are right that we do talk a lot about causation because it is there that we find healing. We realize that everyone has a different story, and there is not a one-size-fits-all reason that people struggle with SSA. However, we (Christian ministries) have seen in the majority of cases (and even secular studies on homosexuality have born this out) that the main contributing factors of unwanted SSA are a combination of biological factors (temperament, likes/dislikes), gender identity confusion (not feeling like one of the guys/gals), family dynamics (conflict intimately connecting with same-sex parent and perhaps siblings), and sexual, verbal, emotional abuse (to whatever extent.)
If none of these factors pertains to you, praise the Lord! He has spared you from a lot of wounding that many people with SSA experience. We acknowledge that there are cases like yours where a person cannot pinpoint why they struggle. That’s okay. We still believe that healing and a change of sexual identity and feelings is still possible.
You mentioned that Alan Chambers said that “a celibate person who calls himself ‘gay’ is living in sin just as an actively gay person”. I think what he means by this is that any Christian person who says that being gay is okay or identifies as gay, whether they act out on their feelings or not, is in essence embracing something that God says we should not embrace, advocate, or identify with.
Finally, you wrote that we ignore those men and women who have not experienced change but choose to remain celibate, and that you feel like a second class citizen with groups like ours because you haven’t experienced a change in your desires and are not married. I can see how you could feel this way. We do celebrate marriage and a change in desires. For many who seek help from our ministries, that is something that they ask God for and strive to achieve. I know that was the case for me. I was not content to remain celibate and struggling with same-sex attractions every day of my life.
However, we also acknowledge that celibacy is as good as marriage because the Bible says so. What we hope for people, though, is that if a person remains celibate that this celibacy includes a diminishment of same-sex attractions in their fantasy life and relationships with those of the same sex. One can still be tempted with same-sex attraction and still find freedom from its hold. The Bible says that we do not have to be a slave to sin, even though we still may be tempted by sin. Also, the Bible makes it clear that the more we turn away from sin (in body, mind, spirit, and identity) the more that sin/ struggle is no longer our master – and it frees us to experience other feelings and realities and identity.
This is what we pray for and hope for concerning all those who seek out our ministries. I hope this helps.
Dear College Jay,
Thanks for your honesty. You are right that we do talk a lot about causation because it is there that we find healing. We realize that everyone has a different story, and there is not a one-size-fits-all reason that people struggle with SSA. However, we (Christian ministries) have seen in the majority of cases (and even secular studies on homosexuality have born this out) that the main contributing factors of unwanted SSA are a combination of biological factors (temperament, likes/dislikes), gender identity confusion (not feeling like one of the guys/gals), family dynamics (conflict intimately connecting with same-sex parent and perhaps siblings), and sexual, verbal, emotional abuse (to whatever extent.)
If none of these factors pertains to you, praise the Lord! He has spared you from a lot of wounding that many people with SSA experience. We acknowledge that there are cases like yours where a person cannot pinpoint why they struggle. That’s okay. We still believe that healing and a change of sexual identity and feelings is still possible.
You mentioned that Alan Chambers said that “a celibate person who calls himself ‘gay’ is living in sin just as an actively gay person”. I think what he means by this is that any Christian person who says that being gay is okay or identifies as gay, whether they act out on their feelings or not, is in essence embracing something that God says we should not embrace, advocate, or identify with.
Finally, you wrote that we ignore those men and women who have not experienced change but choose to remain celibate, and that you feel like a second class citizen with groups like ours because you haven’t experienced a change in your desires and are not married. I can see how you could feel this way. We do celebrate marriage and a change in desires. For many who seek help from our ministries, that is something that they ask God for and strive to achieve. I know that was the case for me. I was not content to remain celibate and struggling with same-sex attractions every day of my life.
However, we also acknowledge that celibacy is as good as marriage because the Bible says so. What we hope for people, though, is that if a person remains celibate that this celibacy includes a diminishment of same-sex attractions in their fantasy life and relationships with those of the same sex. One can still be tempted with same-sex attraction and still find freedom from its hold. The Bible says that we do not have to be a slave to sin, even though we still may be tempted by sin. Also, the Bible makes it clear that the more we turn away from sin (in body, mind, spirit, and identity) the more that sin/ struggle is no longer our master – and it frees us to experience other feelings and realities and identity.
This is what we pray for and hope for concerning all those who seek out our ministries. I hope this helps.
Hi, Jay! Did Alan actually say that?? Romans 8:1 clearly states that there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ. Paul struggled as a Christian just as we do. God could have chosen to snuff out the flesh at the point of our conversion, but He didn’t. Could it be that He wanted us to continually remember that we have no standing on our own and that it is strictly a matter of His giving us salvation as a gift, period–no strings attached. Too often, I believe we rush headlong into sanctification without really taking a deep breath and understanding that we don’t have to do in the flesh good, noble deeds or exhibit holy behavior. Those things can all be attempted in the flesh, but God said He would complete that which He began. And I am reminded what Paul said to the Galatians. ‘Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh’. The flesh does not do only bad stuff. It can also do a lot of good stuff. That’s the problem and why I believe we all fall flat on our face at times because we are attempting to do good with the flesh, which God never intended to redeem. Chuck Swindoll mentions the same in his newest commentary on Romans, and I listened to an ipod version of J Vernon McGee’s sermon on Romans 8 last night. He confirms the same, and that message was given years ago!
The gospel is that we are saved once we recognize that we are sinners and place our trust in the finished work of the cross. We are reborn at that time, sealed with the Holy Spirit. We are to speak the truth in love and really love that person whose sin we may hate. Gay identified people are that way in large part because they have been rejected and marginalized by others who themseleves have been victims of those whose sin natures tarnished and influenced them. Sin is so pervasive. It has left its mark on all of us and caused us to fear those who are unlike ourselves. Yes, sex between people of the same gender is sin, but so is tons of other behaviors. Can we allow God to do the changing that only He can. It’s His kindness that leads us to repentance, not someone pointing their finger at our sin while at the same time failing to see the log in their own eye. It is when a person can really feel that they are accepted and loved by God that they can begin to let go of behaviors they have come to know as friends and see them for the dysfunctions that they truly are. And even then the flesh is crouching at the door waiting to control once again.
Hi, Jay! Did Alan actually say that?? Romans 8:1 clearly states that there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ. Paul struggled as a Christian just as we do. God could have chosen to snuff out the flesh at the point of our conversion, but He didn’t. Could it be that He wanted us to continually remember that we have no standing on our own and that it is strictly a matter of His giving us salvation as a gift, period–no strings attached. Too often, I believe we rush headlong into sanctification without really taking a deep breath and understanding that we don’t have to do in the flesh good, noble deeds or exhibit holy behavior. Those things can all be attempted in the flesh, but God said He would complete that which He began. And I am reminded what Paul said to the Galatians. ‘Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh’. The flesh does not do only bad stuff. It can also do a lot of good stuff. That’s the problem and why I believe we all fall flat on our face at times because we are attempting to do good with the flesh, which God never intended to redeem. Chuck Swindoll mentions the same in his newest commentary on Romans, and I listened to an ipod version of J Vernon McGee’s sermon on Romans 8 last night. He confirms the same, and that message was given years ago!
The gospel is that we are saved once we recognize that we are sinners and place our trust in the finished work of the cross. We are reborn at that time, sealed with the Holy Spirit. We are to speak the truth in love and really love that person whose sin we may hate. Gay identified people are that way in large part because they have been rejected and marginalized by others who themseleves have been victims of those whose sin natures tarnished and influenced them. Sin is so pervasive. It has left its mark on all of us and caused us to fear those who are unlike ourselves. Yes, sex between people of the same gender is sin, but so is tons of other behaviors. Can we allow God to do the changing that only He can. It’s His kindness that leads us to repentance, not someone pointing their finger at our sin while at the same time failing to see the log in their own eye. It is when a person can really feel that they are accepted and loved by God that they can begin to let go of behaviors they have come to know as friends and see them for the dysfunctions that they truly are. And even then the flesh is crouching at the door waiting to control once again.
Thank you, Kristin, for your respectful reply. And you too, Don! I wish I could respond more fully but unfortunately I’m swamped with work. But thanks for hearing me out. God bless you both.
Thank you, Kristin, for your respectful reply. And you too, Don! I wish I could respond more fully but unfortunately I’m swamped with work. But thanks for hearing me out. God bless you both.
You are welcome. God bless you, too!
You are welcome. God bless you, too!
Kristin–
I appreciated reading your thoughtful post and the responses. I would like to offer one caution, however. The Bible does NOT say that ‘homosexuality is a sin’. I believe it clearly says that homsexual behavior is a sin; it clearly implies that harboring and nurturing lustful thoughts is a sin but it does not speak to the ‘condition of homosexuality’ as being a sin.
What I’m getting at here is that the term ‘homosexuality’ is, for the most part, a sociological and psychological term meaning ‘the condition of having sexual attractions to ones own gender’. When we adopt that term into our Christian vernacular, we muddy things a bit. “The condition of having sexual attractions to ones own gender” also includes temptations that a person hasn’t yielded to. I KNOW that you are not intending to call that sin!
In most places you were clear about saying ‘homosexual behavior’ and I commend you for that. As we all know, though, it’s often those small points of confusion that others take to twist and distort the message. When I was in active ministry, we tried very hard to avoid using the word ‘homosexuality’ in tandem with the word ‘sin’. As a ‘condition’, it could be coupled with the word ‘sinful’…meaning ‘an aspect of our fallen nature’ but people don’t often hear the difference between ‘sin’ and ‘sinful’ so we tried very hard to avoid that too.
One unfortunate by-product of using the term ‘homosexuality’ with its sense of ‘the condition’ is that when we speak of ‘change’ and ‘healing’, it leads people to think that ‘change’ means the ‘absence of temptation’…that ‘healing’ means a ‘healing of the condition’ and therefore ‘absence of temptation’. Those I communicate with, both from Exodus past and present, acknowledge that our universal promise is a diminishing in the frequency and potency of temptation…’that sin will no longer have dominion over you’…but I don’t believe we have a Biblical base for promising to every sincere believer that they will never be tempted again.
When you hear of those who criticize the ‘success studies’, you often hear their confusion related to this very point. “So and So claims to have changed…that he even got married…but he admits that occasionally has homosexual temptations…this is not change.” They say this because they have ‘the condition’ in their thoughts.
We know and celebrate lots of change. Change in perspective, change in worldview, change in attitudes towards oneself, change in values, change in how we respond to emotions and stress, change in the degree and frequency of temptation, change in how we seek personal fulfillment, change in behavior and, for many, change in desire and ability to relate to the opposite sex. (I avoided saying ‘sexual preference’ as that term is also ‘loaded’.) All those glorious changes remain lost to our critics when they stumble over the condition, homosexuality.
College Jay–
Always good to hear from you. Your sincerity and candor is always a very welcome breath of fresh air.
Kristin–
I appreciated reading your thoughtful post and the responses. I would like to offer one caution, however. The Bible does NOT say that ‘homosexuality is a sin’. I believe it clearly says that homsexual behavior is a sin; it clearly implies that harboring and nurturing lustful thoughts is a sin but it does not speak to the ‘condition of homosexuality’ as being a sin.
What I’m getting at here is that the term ‘homosexuality’ is, for the most part, a sociological and psychological term meaning ‘the condition of having sexual attractions to ones own gender’. When we adopt that term into our Christian vernacular, we muddy things a bit. “The condition of having sexual attractions to ones own gender” also includes temptations that a person hasn’t yielded to. I KNOW that you are not intending to call that sin!
In most places you were clear about saying ‘homosexual behavior’ and I commend you for that. As we all know, though, it’s often those small points of confusion that others take to twist and distort the message. When I was in active ministry, we tried very hard to avoid using the word ‘homosexuality’ in tandem with the word ‘sin’. As a ‘condition’, it could be coupled with the word ‘sinful’…meaning ‘an aspect of our fallen nature’ but people don’t often hear the difference between ‘sin’ and ‘sinful’ so we tried very hard to avoid that too.
One unfortunate by-product of using the term ‘homosexuality’ with its sense of ‘the condition’ is that when we speak of ‘change’ and ‘healing’, it leads people to think that ‘change’ means the ‘absence of temptation’…that ‘healing’ means a ‘healing of the condition’ and therefore ‘absence of temptation’. Those I communicate with, both from Exodus past and present, acknowledge that our universal promise is a diminishing in the frequency and potency of temptation…’that sin will no longer have dominion over you’…but I don’t believe we have a Biblical base for promising to every sincere believer that they will never be tempted again.
When you hear of those who criticize the ‘success studies’, you often hear their confusion related to this very point. “So and So claims to have changed…that he even got married…but he admits that occasionally has homosexual temptations…this is not change.” They say this because they have ‘the condition’ in their thoughts.
We know and celebrate lots of change. Change in perspective, change in worldview, change in attitudes towards oneself, change in values, change in how we respond to emotions and stress, change in the degree and frequency of temptation, change in how we seek personal fulfillment, change in behavior and, for many, change in desire and ability to relate to the opposite sex. (I avoided saying ‘sexual preference’ as that term is also ‘loaded’.) All those glorious changes remain lost to our critics when they stumble over the condition, homosexuality.
College Jay–
Always good to hear from you. Your sincerity and candor is always a very welcome breath of fresh air.
Eddy, I agree with what you wrote. Yes, it is homosexual behavior that is a sin; it is not a sin to experience same-sex attraction. Secondly, I agree that people can experience change and still be tempted by homosexual thoughts, but these temptations do not have to negate the change they have experienced.
I’d like to define a little bit what I mean by two terms: “homosexual behavior” and “change”. I believe that homosexual behavior (that would fall into the category of sin) would be the following:
• physical homosexual sex in all forms
• virtual homosexual sex online or over the phone
• viewing homosexual pornography
• nursing homosexual fantasies in one’s mind
• refusing to deal with one’s homosexual attractions in order to find healing – accepting one’s attractions as one’s fate or identity and disbelieving that God can and wants to change our attractions.
This last point is controversial, but I am witnessing a trend among Christians who call themselves “gay” as to this affect. Some are offended by those who have experienced a diminishment of SSA because they have not. Some also seem to find solace and community in identifying themselves as gay, and they distrust misnitries that claim that God can and wants to help us overcome same-sex attraction.
It’s as if they are saying, “Who are you to say what works and what doesn’t when it hasn’t worked for me.” It’s like when you hear of someone getting healed and then you pray for the same thing and it doesn’t happen for you the way it happened for them. Or when someone loses weight on a certain diet plan, and then you try it and it and it doesn’t work for you. We tend to give up and disbelieve in healing and losing weight all together.
In terms of defining change, I believe change means the following:
• Turning away from homosexual behavior and identifying as “gay” to identifying as a man or woman of God who desires to live in God’s will (regardless of whether or not our feelings have changed or not).
• Staying away from people and places and vices that fuel our homosexual desires and behavior, such as refusing to look at pornography and go to gay bars, or to hang out with friends that encourage homosexual behavior and advocacy.
• Being willing to go through pain (denying gratifying our sinful sexual desires) in order to fulfill our sexual and emotional desires in Godly ways.
• Meeting our desire to connect intimately with the same sex through healthy friendships rather than in sexual encounters and homosexual relationships.
• Meeting our desire for intimacy and identity via our relationship with Jesus Christ, first, before we meet these needs in any other relationship.
• Being willing to look at the reasons we may struggle with SSA – to get Christian counseling, which takes time and endurance, rather than just trying for the quick spiritual fix.
• Finding a level of satisfaction in being single and celibate (with God as the lover of our souls).
• Getting married and being sexually and emotionally connected to one’s spouse.
Anyway, I think it helps to get specific. Blessings to you.
Eddy, I agree with what you wrote. Yes, it is homosexual behavior that is a sin; it is not a sin to experience same-sex attraction. Secondly, I agree that people can experience change and still be tempted by homosexual thoughts, but these temptations do not have to negate the change they have experienced.
I’d like to define a little bit what I mean by two terms: “homosexual behavior” and “change”. I believe that homosexual behavior (that would fall into the category of sin) would be the following:
• physical homosexual sex in all forms
• virtual homosexual sex online or over the phone
• viewing homosexual pornography
• nursing homosexual fantasies in one’s mind
• refusing to deal with one’s homosexual attractions in order to find healing – accepting one’s attractions as one’s fate or identity and disbelieving that God can and wants to change our attractions.
This last point is controversial, but I am witnessing a trend among Christians who call themselves “gay” as to this affect. Some are offended by those who have experienced a diminishment of SSA because they have not. Some also seem to find solace and community in identifying themselves as gay, and they distrust misnitries that claim that God can and wants to help us overcome same-sex attraction.
It’s as if they are saying, “Who are you to say what works and what doesn’t when it hasn’t worked for me.” It’s like when you hear of someone getting healed and then you pray for the same thing and it doesn’t happen for you the way it happened for them. Or when someone loses weight on a certain diet plan, and then you try it and it and it doesn’t work for you. We tend to give up and disbelieve in healing and losing weight all together.
In terms of defining change, I believe change means the following:
• Turning away from homosexual behavior and identifying as “gay” to identifying as a man or woman of God who desires to live in God’s will (regardless of whether or not our feelings have changed or not).
• Staying away from people and places and vices that fuel our homosexual desires and behavior, such as refusing to look at pornography and go to gay bars, or to hang out with friends that encourage homosexual behavior and advocacy.
• Being willing to go through pain (denying gratifying our sinful sexual desires) in order to fulfill our sexual and emotional desires in Godly ways.
• Meeting our desire to connect intimately with the same sex through healthy friendships rather than in sexual encounters and homosexual relationships.
• Meeting our desire for intimacy and identity via our relationship with Jesus Christ, first, before we meet these needs in any other relationship.
• Being willing to look at the reasons we may struggle with SSA – to get Christian counseling, which takes time and endurance, rather than just trying for the quick spiritual fix.
• Finding a level of satisfaction in being single and celibate (with God as the lover of our souls).
• Getting married and being sexually and emotionally connected to one’s spouse.
Anyway, I think it helps to get specific. Blessings to you.
Thanks Eddy for raising the concerns, and good to see you here.
And thanks Kristin for clarifying. I appreciate your thoughtfulness and candor.
Thanks Eddy for raising the concerns, and good to see you here.
And thanks Kristin for clarifying. I appreciate your thoughtfulness and candor.
Kristin, I appreciate your article and all the discussion of everyone on this thread.
Thank you, Susan!
Kristin, I appreciate your article and all the discussion of everyone on this thread.
Thank you, Susan!
Thanks. Well said. We are struggling with this, denominationally. I am a “convinced” Quaker.
You are welcome, Lorraine, glad it helped. God bless your denomination. (FYI: My grandmother was a Quaker minister.) Every denomination is struggling with this. I believe God can use this divisive issue in his church to bring revival and renewal, not just controversy. God bless!
Thanks. Well said. We are struggling with this, denominationally. I am a “convinced” Quaker.
You are welcome, Lorraine, glad it helped. God bless your denomination. (FYI: My grandmother was a Quaker minister.) Every denomination is struggling with this. I believe God can use this divisive issue in his church to bring revival and renewal, not just controversy. God bless!
Hey Kristin,
It was great meeting you this weekend in Minneapolis. Thank you for the opportunity to share. I wanted to express part of my story here. When I first started to deal with my same sex attractions I came out to my friends and took a Gay identity. I chose to call myself a Gay Christian because I felt that I was being honest with who I was both before God and my church. However, what I discovered was that Christian identity only has room for one title and that is Christian. Paul writes that our thoughts and attitudes should be like Christ’s. He also taught that we are to keep our focus on Christ and that we were to continual keep the Cross of Christ center in our lives. I believe that also means center in our perspective. When we take on titles and identities other than Christ we see the world through those identities and not through the Cross.
Hey Kristin,
It was great meeting you this weekend in Minneapolis. Thank you for the opportunity to share. I wanted to express part of my story here. When I first started to deal with my same sex attractions I came out to my friends and took a Gay identity. I chose to call myself a Gay Christian because I felt that I was being honest with who I was both before God and my church. However, what I discovered was that Christian identity only has room for one title and that is Christian. Paul writes that our thoughts and attitudes should be like Christ’s. He also taught that we are to keep our focus on Christ and that we were to continual keep the Cross of Christ center in our lives. I believe that also means center in our perspective. When we take on titles and identities other than Christ we see the world through those identities and not through the Cross.