I am increasingly confident that we are moving into a post-gay era. Post-gay is a very broad secular term that was created in the gay community to describe a day where they reach full equality (as they define equality) and no longer need to fight public policy, social or religious battles.
I contend (hat tip to Peter Ould) that people like us are on a Christian post-gay journey where the gay vs. ex-gay vs straight labels are no longer sufficient … or even appropriate … to describe who or what we are about.
That said, I listened to this whole program on Boston station WBUR. The host is obviously pro-gay and the guests are gay activists. Their discussion is interesting and informative. It was very helpful to hear their perspective of what “post-gay” means and the benefits/consequences of that as they see it.
This is the website description of the show:
Boston’s Gay Pride movement turned 40 this weekend. In state that went from 300 years of English puritanical morality to a 100 years of Irish Catholic morality to being the first in the nation to recognize gay marriage, it’s clear what a dramatic impact that movement has had. Today, Pride is a mainstream event, covered by the mainstream press and attended by mainstream politicians.
Almost two generations later, have sexual minorities become so integrated into society, at least in a big progressive city like Boston, that being gay is no longer an issue? As the South End becomes more “rich” than “gay,” is Boston’s LGBT community losing its physical headquarters — and does that matter? Does Boston need a Castro district?
We’re examining the possibility of post-gay Boston, what has been lost and what has been gained if the gay movement has, indeed, assimilated into the mainstream.
For those of us interested in the current environment in Boston (with potential to be a national and global trend) from a gay perspective , this program will help. I think the program is insightful on a number of levels concerning personal identity and how it is used to influence social factors and is influenced by social factors.
MORE:
Post-gay Paradigm = Opportunity for Increased Civility
Post-Gay is the new Avant Garde
If you’d like, you can order the audio of the Post-Gay Paradigm Workshop I did last year.
About Randy Thomas
“…a day where they reach full equality (as they define equality) and no longer need to fight public policy, social or religious battles”? “Full equality”? Would Exodus ever support such a thing? Would Exodus be willing to give up fighting these battles? Wouldn’t that mean “post-Exodus”? Ore are you just using “post-gay” as an alternative to the equally “ex-gay” and “former-homosexual”?
If you go ahead and read what I have written in the past, I think it is a whole paradigm shift that is much bigger than our take on it. Post-gay describes a sociological environment and direction, not excluding but not simply about one personal journey. Post-gay is not a primary or secondary identity … it is an increasing sociological phenomenon.
At least from my laymen’s not-an-intellectual perspective.
As for battles … our existence has never been contextualized by the religious right or in reaction to the gay communities various social/political goals. To try and force us into that context is simply not true. Our existence has always been and will always be about living a content life in Christ and helping the Church minister in this area redemptively and effectively.
We haven’t been involved in public policy for two years and when we were (from a little bit in 2002 to more increased attention in 2003 to about halfway into 2008, it was one of twenty or so priorities. Even then it involved less than 3% – 5% of our budget and was certainly not ever a “top priority.”
The mischaracterization of Exodus being some impersonal fear based political monolith created in reaction to gay activism is a lie.
“…a day where they reach full equality (as they define equality) and no longer need to fight public policy, social or religious battles”? “Full equality”? Would Exodus ever support such a thing? Would Exodus be willing to give up fighting these battles? Wouldn’t that mean “post-Exodus”? Ore are you just using “post-gay” as an alternative to the equally “ex-gay” and “former-homosexual”?
If you go ahead and read what I have written in the past, I think it is a whole paradigm shift that is much bigger than our take on it. Post-gay describes a sociological environment and direction, not excluding but not simply about one personal journey. Post-gay is not a primary or secondary identity … it is an increasing sociological phenomenon.
At least from my laymen’s not-an-intellectual perspective.
As for battles … our existence has never been contextualized by the religious right or in reaction to the gay communities various social/political goals. To try and force us into that context is simply not true. Our existence has always been and will always be about living a content life in Christ and helping the Church minister in this area redemptively and effectively.
We haven’t been involved in public policy for two years and when we were (from a little bit in 2002 to more increased attention in 2003 to about halfway into 2008, it was one of twenty or so priorities. Even then it involved less than 3% – 5% of our budget and was certainly not ever a “top priority.”
The mischaracterization of Exodus being some impersonal fear based political monolith created in reaction to gay activism is a lie.
Howdy!
I think it’s kinda different across The Pond in the UK. We have some parts of society and some towns – like the one I grew up in, where LGBT is 1/3 population, and so orientation isn’t an issue in the town centre, although it is in suburbs, where people are beaten up for being gay.
And then we have a rise in bigotry of all kinds in the last few years in the UK, crossing cultures, classes and even into Christianity. I know there’s a lot of very good things happening in America, but there’s a real mixed bag happening here in the UK. Like I lived in Edinburgh, capital of Scotland, two years ago, where I experienced and witnessed a lot of homophobia in the workplace – despite the laws and despite not telling anyone I was gay! I also witnessed open racism and horrendous attitudes towards people with mental health conditions – and I was working for the health service!!!
In TfT – the celibate gay Christian org in the UK, guys were going to conferences looking at the girls there, and I was going looking at the guys. A lot of us around the 20-30 age bracket were feeling that the rise in homophobia in churches as well as in society meant that looking for an opposite-sex spouse with SSA was the solution to being safe – from violent attacks and ostracism – and being understood and respected.
I’ve experienced Christians treating me as a project, or being friends with me for several years, and as soon as I raise an objection to their partner’s homophobia or them trying to treat me as a project, they turn on me, and accuse me of hating them, their partner etc. My experience of heterosexual people in recent years is that the gay thing is the first thing that they will bring up to use against me, hence I’ve kept most of my friendships – definately my closest friendship – within TfT now. I have straight friends where I live, but only one knows I’m gay, and the others, I just don’t talk about myself much around them.
As far as I’m aware, attitudes in the UK have gone backwards, not forwards in the main. There are good Christians out there, and I’ve got the pleasure of serving alongside them, but I have already had to speak to someone about their attitude towards gay people in the two months I’ve known them. They have apologised and thought about it since.
At the place I serve last weekend, I realised the people sat around the table, all but one know I’m gay, and I was “Oh heck. But I know they’re all straight. But still, it’s not the same.” And it isn’t the same.
Hmm, yes, I think we’ve got a long way to go before orientation is not an issue any more. -x-
Howdy!
I think it’s kinda different across The Pond in the UK. We have some parts of society and some towns – like the one I grew up in, where LGBT is 1/3 population, and so orientation isn’t an issue in the town centre, although it is in suburbs, where people are beaten up for being gay.
And then we have a rise in bigotry of all kinds in the last few years in the UK, crossing cultures, classes and even into Christianity. I know there’s a lot of very good things happening in America, but there’s a real mixed bag happening here in the UK. Like I lived in Edinburgh, capital of Scotland, two years ago, where I experienced and witnessed a lot of homophobia in the workplace – despite the laws and despite not telling anyone I was gay! I also witnessed open racism and horrendous attitudes towards people with mental health conditions – and I was working for the health service!!!
In TfT – the celibate gay Christian org in the UK, guys were going to conferences looking at the girls there, and I was going looking at the guys. A lot of us around the 20-30 age bracket were feeling that the rise in homophobia in churches as well as in society meant that looking for an opposite-sex spouse with SSA was the solution to being safe – from violent attacks and ostracism – and being understood and respected.
I’ve experienced Christians treating me as a project, or being friends with me for several years, and as soon as I raise an objection to their partner’s homophobia or them trying to treat me as a project, they turn on me, and accuse me of hating them, their partner etc. My experience of heterosexual people in recent years is that the gay thing is the first thing that they will bring up to use against me, hence I’ve kept most of my friendships – definately my closest friendship – within TfT now. I have straight friends where I live, but only one knows I’m gay, and the others, I just don’t talk about myself much around them.
As far as I’m aware, attitudes in the UK have gone backwards, not forwards in the main. There are good Christians out there, and I’ve got the pleasure of serving alongside them, but I have already had to speak to someone about their attitude towards gay people in the two months I’ve known them. They have apologised and thought about it since.
At the place I serve last weekend, I realised the people sat around the table, all but one know I’m gay, and I was “Oh heck. But I know they’re all straight. But still, it’s not the same.” And it isn’t the same.
Hmm, yes, I think we’ve got a long way to go before orientation is not an issue any more. -x-
Randy, I’ve been trying to find the right topic to ask this question. How would you define homophobia or anti-gay attitudes? Thanks.
Homophobia is irrational fear of homosexuality. Anti-gay is a highly politicized buzz word used by self-described pro-gay people to describe everyone that doesn’t agree with their public policy or moral positions.
Randy, I’ve been trying to find the right topic to ask this question. How would you define homophobia or anti-gay attitudes? Thanks.
Homophobia is irrational fear of homosexuality. Anti-gay is a highly politicized buzz word used by self-described pro-gay people to describe everyone that doesn’t agree with their public policy or moral positions.
Catherine, I really do adore your thoughts and posts here. Keep up the good work! It’s also really interesting to hear about your conferences in England. As for the post-gay phenomenon, it really is interesting. There is a lesbian couple at my college, both of whom are English professors, who refuse to be called or identify as lesbians… Unfortunately, this doesn’t really work out, since as you can see I just inadvertently called them lesbians in my description of them, and everyone else I know calls them that behind their back — not as a slur, but simply because we don’t know how else to define two women who are in a sexual and romantic relationship.
The problem with humanity is that as soon as we become aware of a certain phenomenon, we want to categorize and label it. What with my near-obsessive organizational skills (I received a label maker for my birthday one year), I have a knack for wanting to put everything in categories — which I certainly realize factors into my own identification as a gay man despite my celibacy. It will be interesting to see how categories break down over the years, though. We still use racial and religious categorizations to describe certain aspects of individuals, so I doubt that words which describe sexual orientation or practice will ever truly go away. However, they might easily become less and less important, to the point where in the future, instead of having “gay men and women,” in our collective cultural consciousness, we’ll have “men and women who happen to be gay.”
Hi Jay, don’t forget you can hit reply under the comment you are responding to in order to facilitate good conversation flow.
Thanks for the comment.
Sorry about that! Thanks for the reminder. Hope you’re well!
Catherine, I really do adore your thoughts and posts here. Keep up the good work! It’s also really interesting to hear about your conferences in England. As for the post-gay phenomenon, it really is interesting. There is a lesbian couple at my college, both of whom are English professors, who refuse to be called or identify as lesbians… Unfortunately, this doesn’t really work out, since as you can see I just inadvertently called them lesbians in my description of them, and everyone else I know calls them that behind their back — not as a slur, but simply because we don’t know how else to define two women who are in a sexual and romantic relationship.
The problem with humanity is that as soon as we become aware of a certain phenomenon, we want to categorize and label it. What with my near-obsessive organizational skills (I received a label maker for my birthday one year), I have a knack for wanting to put everything in categories — which I certainly realize factors into my own identification as a gay man despite my celibacy. It will be interesting to see how categories break down over the years, though. We still use racial and religious categorizations to describe certain aspects of individuals, so I doubt that words which describe sexual orientation or practice will ever truly go away. However, they might easily become less and less important, to the point where in the future, instead of having “gay men and women,” in our collective cultural consciousness, we’ll have “men and women who happen to be gay.”
Hi Jay, don’t forget you can hit reply under the comment you are responding to in order to facilitate good conversation flow.
Thanks for the comment.
Sorry about that! Thanks for the reminder. Hope you’re well!
Post-gay? When I envision a post-gay society, I picture a world where sexual orientation doesn’t matter. Where no one cares if you’re with a man, woman, or even a third gender – OR just with yourself. That society doesn’t seem close to being a reality right now.
Post-gay? When I envision a post-gay society, I picture a world where sexual orientation doesn’t matter. Where no one cares if you’re with a man, woman, or even a third gender – OR just with yourself. That society doesn’t seem close to being a reality right now.
I read this article with interest, and have to say, I am surprised to see Exodus taking an almost approving stand on the idea of a post-gay societal shift. But if that is in fact the case, i can see the benefit of one. I myself struggle with same sex attraction. I would love to be ex gay. God is still working on me. But for those who do not have scruples regarding their homosexuality, I guess the answer is live and let live. I have found this to be the underlying opinion of a very skilled christian counselor, author of the book The Heart of Female Same Sex Attraction, when she writes that she doesn’t try to persuade a lesbian to change, but rather helps her to see what is at the root of her homosexual desires. She is then free to continue in them, or to consider a more healthy approach to her sexuality. But in the meantime, Janelle Hallman does not make them feel that their lifestyle is unacceptable. She does not refuse to counsel them if they don’t want to quit being gay. She offers them a safe person to talk with about their issues. And she loves them no matter what they choose. I believe that is the approach Jesus would use. His love is unconditional. So should ours be. However, it is not loving to simply ignore someone’s plight if they are making important decisions in their life based on woundedness and fear. So it is loving to point this out to them, if they give us permission to do so, to speak into their life. The only way a lesbian is going to want our opinion, however, is if we have a friendly relationship with her. Otherwise she will tune us out, and our message will not get through. So, I believe it is time for the church to open up to the homosexual community and show them the love of Jesus. If it takes a post-gay society to do that, then i am all for it. Not because I want our society to condone homosexuality. But rather to give us a place at the table, instead of being ostracized from it because they perceive us as enemies of all they hold dear.
Thank you very much for your thoughtful comment. I completely agree.
As for Exodus “almost approving,” I don’t see it as an issue of approval or rejection. it is just an acknowledgement of what is and what is coming. There are plenty of things that make me nervous or I would not personally accept in a post-gay reality.
I just know that in my church and for many of us in the broader homosexual community who don’t identify as “gay” or pursue other options of stewarding our lives … we live in a post-gay reality in a Christian context. My friends know that I have a gay background and may possibly struggle with homosexuality from time to time and it literally doesn’t matter. They don’t see me as gay, ex-gay or straight … we just don’t relate in that context. That’s been true in every church I have been in as a Christian. So in my private life … I am already living in a post-gay reality and that is the same for thousands of people with similar testimonies in the Body of Christ.
It’s not true for everyone but it is increasing in the church (to not make homosexuality a forever unique thing or identifier of people) and it is increasing in the culture as well.
And just as post-modernism can’t be completely defined or implemented by modernists or some sub group. Post-gay can’t be completely defined or implemented by those who identify as gay. Post-gay is an across the board social environment which includes those of us already on a Christian post-gay journey.
Thanks again for your comment.
Randy, you said:
“They don’t see me as gay, ex-gay or straight … we just don’t relate in that context.”
That’s my experience too. One of the most healing aspects of my walk has been bonding with other broken Christian men whose brokeness is different than mine. When broken men meet together and love each other, healing happens. I had a prayer partner with whom I met early every Tuesday morning for two or three years. He never really knew what my particular struggles were. It really didn’t matter. We were just two men who had bonded over our different (and unspoken) brokenesses and enjoyed good fellowship together.
The church I’m in now is like that too. My issues are not known by the other men in the fellowship, nor do I really know most of theirs. But we love each other and are there for each other. I think, in a way, that’s very, very healthy. We’re past having to rehearse our particular issues in front of one another. If someone happens to be hurting, we’re just there for him. No questions asked.
It’s so freeing, really.
I read this article with interest, and have to say, I am surprised to see Exodus taking an almost approving stand on the idea of a post-gay societal shift. But if that is in fact the case, i can see the benefit of one. I myself struggle with same sex attraction. I would love to be ex gay. God is still working on me. But for those who do not have scruples regarding their homosexuality, I guess the answer is live and let live. I have found this to be the underlying opinion of a very skilled christian counselor, author of the book \The Heart of Female Same Sex Attraction\, when she writes that she doesn’t try to persuade a lesbian to change, but rather helps her to see what is at the root of her homosexual desires. She is then free to continue in them, or to consider a more healthy approach to her sexuality. But in the meantime, Janelle Hallman does not make them feel that their lifestyle is unacceptable. She does not refuse to counsel them if they don’t want to quit being gay. She offers them a safe person to talk with about their issues. And she loves them no matter what they choose. I believe that is the approach Jesus would use. His love is unconditional. So should ours be. However, it is not loving to simply ignore someone’s plight if they are making important decisions in their life based on woundedness and fear. So it is loving to point this out to them, if they give us permission to do so, to speak into their life. The only way a lesbian is going to want our opinion, however, is if we have a friendly relationship with her. Otherwise she will tune us out, and our message will not get through. So, I believe it is time for the church to open up to the homosexual community and show them the love of Jesus. If it takes a post-gay society to do that, then i am all for it. Not because I want our society to condone homosexuality. But rather to give us a place at the table, instead of being ostracized from it because they perceive us as enemies of all they hold dear.
Thank you very much for your thoughtful comment. I completely agree.
As for Exodus “almost approving,” I don’t see it as an issue of approval or rejection. it is just an acknowledgement of what is and what is coming. There are plenty of things that make me nervous or I would not personally accept in a post-gay reality.
I just know that in my church and for many of us in the broader homosexual community who don’t identify as “gay” or pursue other options of stewarding our lives … we live in a post-gay reality in a Christian context. My friends know that I have a gay background and may possibly struggle with homosexuality from time to time and it literally doesn’t matter. They don’t see me as gay, ex-gay or straight … we just don’t relate in that context. That’s been true in every church I have been in as a Christian. So in my private life … I am already living in a post-gay reality and that is the same for thousands of people with similar testimonies in the Body of Christ.
It’s not true for everyone but it is increasing in the church (to not make homosexuality a forever unique thing or identifier of people) and it is increasing in the culture as well.
And just as post-modernism can’t be completely defined or implemented by modernists or some sub group. Post-gay can’t be completely defined or implemented by those who identify as gay. Post-gay is an across the board social environment which includes those of us already on a Christian post-gay journey.
Thanks again for your comment.
Randy, you said:
“They don’t see me as gay, ex-gay or straight … we just don’t relate in that context.”
That’s my experience too. One of the most healing aspects of my walk has been bonding with other broken Christian men whose brokeness is different than mine. When broken men meet together and love each other, healing happens. I had a prayer partner with whom I met early every Tuesday morning for two or three years. He never really knew what my particular struggles were. It really didn’t matter. We were just two men who had bonded over our different (and unspoken) brokenesses and enjoyed good fellowship together.
The church I’m in now is like that too. My issues are not known by the other men in the fellowship, nor do I really know most of theirs. But we love each other and are there for each other. I think, in a way, that’s very, very healthy. We’re past having to rehearse our particular issues in front of one another. If someone happens to be hurting, we’re just there for him. No questions asked.
It’s so freeing, really.
Randy writes: “Homophobia is irrational fear of homosexuality”
When it irrational and when is it principled? How can you tell?
I might suggest that homophobia is more prevalent than you might believe and that it’s simply presented within a religious or moral framework (although I do believe it’s possible to have a principled opposition to it not based on personal “feeling” or prejudice).
Principled or not, it should not be an excuse to deny a person employment or housing, and the fact that we have to even argue that is astounding to me in 2010.
Principled fear? That doesn’t make sense here. Plain fear is called “fear of homosexuality.” The “phobia” part is the delineation between just plain fear and homophobia.
Randy writes: “Homophobia is irrational fear of homosexuality”
When it irrational and when is it principled? How can you tell?
I might suggest that homophobia is more prevalent than you might believe and that it’s simply presented within a religious or moral framework (although I do believe it’s possible to have a principled opposition to it not based on personal “feeling” or prejudice).
Principled or not, it should not be an excuse to deny a person employment or housing, and the fact that we have to even argue that is astounding to me in 2010.
Principled fear? That doesn’t make sense here. Plain fear is called “fear of homosexuality.” The “phobia” part is the delineation between just plain fear and homophobia.
I’m still not getting what post-gay is.
I’m still not getting what post-gay is.